Forum

Poster: Mutant
Date Posted: 27 February 2011, 00:54am
Death of a party
Right now, if all the members of your party get killed, it's pretty much game over. You have to generate a new party and start from scratch. This seems a little bit harsh, especially for higher level parties. I'm thinking this should probably change. If your party is wiped out, you end up in a nearby town, and have to resurrect your characters. There should probably be some other sort of penalty. I was thinking something along the lines of losing some of your equipped items (maybe 10-20% of equipped items)? Still quite severe, but nothing like it is now.

A problem related to this though, is what if you don't have enough money to res any of your characters? You're still dead in the water. Perhaps one character could be auto-resed (randomly selected).

Anyone else have thoughts on this?
 
Poster: JamesOfJames
Date Posted: 27 February 2011, 04:19am
Re: Death of a party
Personally, I would say that party death should be pretty harsh - the flee threshold works pretty well, and you can't attack a party more than a few times a day.  It seems the most likely cause of party death would be carelessness, perhaps.

If it were up to me, I would probably leave the dead party where it fell, and remove all their mayors.  I would have the player reroll a new party, and leave them a quest to resurrect the dead party - once they got there, they could reclaim all their old equipment and characters.  I would have some check to make sure that no one else could come by and loot or claim the dead party, similar to the check that artifact quests have now, allowing only the correct party to find the artifacts.  I'm not sure if I would simply wipe out the garrisons or kill them and set up resurrect quests for those as well.  This would kinda get around the question of not having enough money to rez a character upon party death as well, but might be too harsh.

Interesting question, and I'm glad you brought it up!  If nothing else, I think I'd impose a much harsher than normal experience loss upon party death.
 
Poster: Axel-K
Date Posted: 27 February 2011, 06:09am
Re: Death of a party
The flee threshold works for garrisons, but not for unattended parties in the wilderness. I wiped out Overlord, and immediately had regrets when it became clear that they had not fought back in any coherent fashion. When I looked at an earlier screen I saw that they were not even online at the time. They were probably caught off guard by the resetting of the clock. Mutant was able to restore them when I asked.

@JamesOfJames The quest idea is brilliant.
 
Poster: Mutant
Date Posted: 27 February 2011, 09:56am
Re: Death of a party
There is a flee threshold for parties (under party options).
 
Poster: Axel-K
Date Posted: 27 February 2011, 10:56am
Re: Death of a party
[quote author=Mutant link=topic=107.msg904#msg904 date=1298800564]
There is a flee threshold for parties (under party options).
[/quote]

By default it is set to 60 percent. It shouldn't have been possible for me to wipe out Overlord when he was not in control - the party ought to have fled on contact after it reached that threshold. By the same token, my garrison should have done the same. Could this be a return of the fleeing bug?
 
Poster: Triumph
Date Posted: 27 February 2011, 13:23pm
Re: Death of a party
No, I was not restored - I lost all mayors/towns and, it appears, garrisons.  I survived in a most unexpected way.  Thank you for the expression of regret; but the conflict may continue ......

I'm not sure what should be the outcome of a death of a party.  If there was no absolute or harsh penalty the game would have much less meaning.  If it represented the ceasession of the party/mayors/garrisons the player could be so discouraged he quits.  I am critical of JamesOfJames quest idea because it would be a windfall for a defeated party:  the party could be restored and there is a bonus in the new/questing party remaining as fresh recruits.  I think Mutant's solution is closest with perhaps one or two characters remaining permanently dead.  

P.S. - I don't think there was a bug in Mongoo's garrison fleeing.  After they ran from the tower they fled often - sometimes they just couldn't get away.  Did Overlord try to flee?  Their retreat was set at 0%?
 
Poster: Axel-K
Date Posted: 27 February 2011, 13:49pm
Re: Death of a party
You survived because Mutant was able to retrieve something of your party on my request.

I PM'ed him, and he saw fit to do it. I felt bad because it was too easy. Your party did not flee as expected. You might be able to confirm this - that you did not intend to leave your party in the wilderness, but they ended up there because of the lost day, and that you were not online and in control of your party to make the fight interesting.

I think you have a point. The stakes should be all or nothing, or close to nothing. Makes the game more interesting. I almost wish you had set me back more so I could start afresh with a new overall strategy.

So, don't think of it as losing a party - think of it as gaining an ass-whooping! On with the game!
 
Poster: Axel-K
Date Posted: 27 February 2011, 20:01pm
Re: Death of a party
Haw haw! What's with the PM'ing, Triumph? Are we supposed to be whispering like spiteful little schoolgirls plotting some nastiness?


For the record, my expression of regret was not an apology, but concern that I had broken the rules of the game by taking advantage of the glitch when Mutant reset the clock. I ended up in a town I don't remember finishing up in (shades of real life here), you ended up in the middle of the badlands with your party flee settings set to zero (for some reason known only to yourself).


So, basically, all bets are off now. Bring it on, along with your allies and the horse they rode in on for all I care!

It's just a game (albeit a pretty good one). If I win, I'm happy, If I lose I'm not too bothered.
 
Poster: Mutant
Date Posted: 27 February 2011, 20:27pm
Re: Death of a party
The quest idea is an interesting one... but I think it's a little complex, both to implement and for players. Remember, a lot of the parties dying will be low-level, so it might be a bit of a confusing situation for them. I think the penalty has to be something relatively straight forward.. the good thing about losing equipped items is that it can be fairly easily tuned... if we find it's too lenient, we make it 40% of equipped items lost, for example.

The key is to strike a balance between making it matter when you die, and not putting players off completely so that they stop playing the game altogether. I think we're definitely too far to the latter right now.
 
Poster: Axel-K
Date Posted: 27 February 2011, 21:24pm
Re: Death of a party
This is not an easy question. I thought that more people would be interested in debating the issue, seeing as it is central to the game. I suppose people don't wish to contemplate their mortality even in a virtual world of tiles and text.

I tend to value the equipment more than characters. I think it is harsher to lose valuable equipment than a high level player.

It is much more easy to level up a new character than to be lucky and find something that can really change the way you plan your game. The character stats are not so flexible in that way. For instance, if you wanted to create a character that had very high constitution at the expense of offensive power, in order to port material over long distances without losing turns, it is very hard to get such a player to level up through combat - but it can be created using lucky finds of magical items. The items make the characters.

There is also the matter of enhanced equipment made more valuable by the combination of a chance finding of a god-like blacksmith, and a lump sum of gold gained through due diligence in exterminating supernatural vermin.

It seems to be more painful to lose something gained by rare chance than something gained through work. I would prefer to lose a lot of turns, or some high level characters than to lose the tools I have so carefully gathered, and learned how to use.