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Poster: Rolf_Soldaat
Date Posted: 13 April 2009, 15:35pm
Some suggestions.
I've been playing this game for a couple of days and already I really like it, but it's still got some flaws (of course, it's still pre-beta).  I've got some suggestions I thought you might appreciate.

1. Right now I usually just use up all my turns in one session, and as a result I can only play once per day.
    This could be fixed by either increasing turns gradually or by making some actions cost time, for example; camping could recover some hp, but you can't do anything for a couple of   
    hours, or upgrading something at the blacksmith costs time.

2. Combat usually comes down to repeatedly pressing fight until you win, it could be made more interesting by adding special moves like a warrior being able to attack multiple enemies.
    I also strongly advise against limiting spells to just a couple per day, right now they are kind of useless, you could make mana that recharges every hour or so (this would also 
    be another reason to not use all turns in one go).

3. The stats (strength, agility etc.) only have one purpose which results in players just upgrading one or two stats per class and neglecting the rest, adding multiple effects to each stat
    might result in more balanced characters. For example a warrior would need intelligence to learn the aforementioned special moves.

Hope it helps.
 
Poster: Mutant
Date Posted: 13 April 2009, 16:38pm
Re: Some suggestions.
[quote author=Rolf_Soldaat link=topic=32.msg146#msg146 date=1239636906]
I've been playing this game for a couple of days and already I really like it, but it's still got some flaws (of course, it's still pre-beta).  I've got some suggestions I thought you might appreciate.
[/quote]

Thanks.... I'm glad you like it... there is still a lot left to do on it, and the finished game (if I ever get there) will be pretty different to what it is now.

[quote author=Rolf_Soldaat link=topic=32.msg146#msg146 date=1239636906]
1. Right now I usually just use up all my turns in one session, and as a result I can only play once per day.
    This could be fixed by either increasing turns gradually or by making some actions cost time, for example; camping could recover some hp, but you can't do anything for a couple of   
    hours, or upgrading something at the blacksmith costs time.
[/quote]

Interesting suggestions... altho the biggest drains on turns are moving and combat (I think the only other ones are scouting and camping at the moment). I'm not sure those would work well with a time delay... I've seen it done in some other games, and it can be *really* annoying.

I guess the simple solution here would be to increase the amount of daily turns. The main reason there's a limit is that I think most people will play 2-3 times a week, and I don't want a small number of players who play every day for several hours having an easy ride to the top. I also think that people will likely play quite a lot when they first sign up, then fall into a regular cycle of a couple of times a week after a while.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic and people will actually play more often. Anyway, something I need to think about a bit more I guess.

[quote author=Rolf_Soldaat link=topic=32.msg146#msg146 date=1239636906]
2. Combat usually comes down to repeatedly pressing fight until you win, it could be made more interesting by adding special moves like a warrior being able to attack multiple enemies.
    I also strongly advise against limiting spells to just a couple per day, right now they are kind of useless, you could make mana that recharges every hour or so (this would also   
    be another reason to not use all turns in one go).
[/quote]

Fair comment on combat not being that interesting... there are a few things I'll be adding to address this... although combat hopefully won't be as big a part of the game as it is now...

Spells do get a bit more intersting at higher levels.. I think there needs to be a limit, and I prefer the memorising system to mana, because it makes you plan ahead. That'll become a bigger deal when there are more spells to choose from too. But spellcasters should ideally become more powerful at higher levels (standard RPG stuff :) )

[quote author=Rolf_Soldaat link=topic=32.msg146#msg146 date=1239636906]
3. The stats (strength, agility etc.) only have one purpose which results in players just upgrading one or two stats per class and neglecting the rest, adding multiple effects to each stat
    might result in more balanced characters. For example a warrior would need intelligence to learn the aforementioned special moves.

Hope it helps.
[/quote]

There are already some secondary uses for some of the stats, and there are more to come :)

Thanks a lot for the feedback... it does help a lot... and thanks for taking the time to play.
 
Poster: andrewb
Date Posted: 16 April 2009, 00:34am
Re: Some suggestions.
I can agree that the turns feel restrictive to begin with, but they do work well once you get into playing the game.

Depends how quickly you level though, as if you slowed it down people may play more...
 
Poster: Mutant
Date Posted: 16 April 2009, 10:33am
Re: Some suggestions.
Do you mean if I slowed the leveling down people would play more? I guess that's because there's not a lot to do at higher levels (yet)? That'll hopefully be fixed soon... what's considered high level now will also eventually be low-medium level.

At any rate, I think I will increase the daily turns... probably to 150 to begin with (and increase the maximum turns)... but it is a balancing act, so it might take a while to find the right number.
 
Poster: raisltin
Date Posted: 23 April 2009, 19:12pm
Re: Some suggestions.
Hey, Interesting start for a game, some suggestions/questions

1) Is there going to be online interaction between parties? (PvP, Guilds ETC)
2) Will there be more to do? I spent 20 minutes and was done on the first day.
3) How detailed do you want to get in character customization?
I mean we can go deep into subclasses and unique skills and such, I think the more customization the better game will be and the more people will want to come to your site.
4) Will there be resets and people are racing for the best score?
5) If we are going to have turns, what can you do to make people who want to play more happy? Could there be side things people can do in the mean time?
6) I think there should be an introductory start location and quests that familiarize noobs :)
 
Poster: Mutant
Date Posted: 23 April 2009, 22:44pm
Re: Some suggestions.
[quote author=raisltin link=topic=32.msg155#msg155 date=1240513935]
Hey, Interesting start for a game, some suggestions/questions

1) Is there going to be online interaction between parties? (PvP, Guilds ETC)
[/quote]

There will be guilds, altho they'll be a bit different to what you might expect from a standard RPG. There'll be a whole lot of ways to co-operate in the finished game (which might arrive one day :) )

I'm actually working on PvP right now... could be a little while before it's done tho.

[quote author=raisltin link=topic=32.msg155#msg155 date=1240513935]
2) Will there be more to do? I spent 20 minutes and was done on the first day.
[/quote]

Do you mean you ran out of turns, or you had nothing left to do? There is quite a bit to do already, it takes a lot longer to explore the game than 20 mins, some people have been playing for months. That said, there is still a lot more to come... as the about page says, the game's roughly 40% done.

[quote author=raisltin link=topic=32.msg155#msg155 date=1240513935]
3) How detailed do you want to get in character customization?
I mean we can go deep into subclasses and unique skills and such, I think the more customization the better game will be and the more people will want to come to your site.
[/quote]

There might be more on character customisation, but there'll also be a lot more on other aspects of the game... the focus won't be quite the same as a traditional RPG.

[quote author=raisltin link=topic=32.msg155#msg155 date=1240513935]
4) Will there be resets and people are racing for the best score?
[/quote]

There might be upper limits to reach in terms of things like experience, but the idea is that there will be different goals at higher levels. The leaderboards are only one measure of your success (and even then, they'll be expanded a lot more soon)... I don't think anyone will get reset if it can be helped (altho I don't rule out the possibility of having to start a fresh game and stopping registrations on an existing one if I have to)

[quote author=raisltin link=topic=32.msg155#msg155 date=1240513935]
5) If we are going to have turns, what can you do to make people who want to play more happy? Could there be side things people can do in the mean time?
[/quote]

I think I just need to try to get the balance of turns right... something I'm still working on :)

[quote author=raisltin link=topic=32.msg155#msg155 date=1240513935]
6) I think there should be an introductory start location and quests that familiarize noobs :)
[/quote]

Yeah, I think some sort of tutorial is needed... am open to suggestions on this!

Anyway, thanks a lot for the feedback... glad you're enjoying it.

 
Poster: raisltin
Date Posted: 24 April 2009, 21:25pm
Re: Some suggestions.
the problem right now is, some times i will make a party, and it will be in a start location with way to powerful monsters.

If we made a town "noobville" That was either on a separate map or a contained area that only had low level monsters (goblins/skeletons) then we can make simple quests, like kill 20 goblins or skeletons. And rescue the noob party from a dungeon. Once they complete a all the requirements that party can migrate to the "real world" and can be better equipped and prepared for it.

Do you need someone to write out quests and what not? I can help dev story lines and such if you need someone. I gotta good resume with creating muds from back in the day :)
 
Poster: raisltin
Date Posted: 24 April 2009, 21:30pm
Re: Some suggestions.
Can we prevent attacks from melee to the back of the party? I find my mages dieing way too often :(

AND... how about people on their first day get free healing? or at least level 1? 100 gold is steep for new players.
 
Poster: Mutant
Date Posted: 27 April 2009, 13:26pm
Re: Some suggestions.
[quote author=raisltin link=topic=32.msg157#msg157 date=1240608316]
the problem right now is, some times i will make a party, and it will be in a start location with way to powerful monsters.

If we made a town "noobville" That was either on a separate map or a contained area that only had low level monsters (goblins/skeletons) then we can make simple quests, like kill 20 goblins or skeletons. And rescue the noob party from a dungeon. Once they complete a all the requirements that party can migrate to the "real world" and can be better equipped and prepared for it.
[/quote]

Fair enough... I think the solution is to be a bit smarter about where parties can start... the idea is that the world will be quite dynamic, so it'll be difficult to hard-code a starting position.. what's safe for noobs now might not be in a few months time...

[quote author=raisltin link=topic=32.msg157#msg157 date=1240608316]
Do you need someone to write out quests and what not? I can help dev story lines and such if you need someone. I gotta good resume with creating muds from back in the day :)
[/quote]

The tricky part of the quests is more about programming them than writing them... I'm open to suggestions on quests types though, they'll have to fit into the game play of course.

On mages dying: you do set them to defend right? I think total prevention of attacks on back rank is too powerful... the game is possibly a bit too hard for new parties right now, but I don't want to make it too easy either... but yeah, may look at lowering the price for resurrection for low level parties....
 
Poster: raisltin
Date Posted: 27 April 2009, 16:08pm
Re: Some suggestions.
For the back attacks, i just noticed it occurred way to often.

My most successful party right now is 3 fighters and 2 archers. Seems like if i have over 20 AGI, most never get hit.

I also have an archer with a bow equipped but it still says he attacks with a quarterstaff.
 
Poster: b_jonas
Date Posted: 27 April 2009, 18:25pm
Re: Some suggestions.
[quote author=raisltin link=topic=32.msg165#msg165 date=1240848503]
I also have an archer with a bow equipped but it still says he attacks with a quarterstaff.
[/quote]

I've got this problem too: the program says my archer couldn't attack with his bow because he's out of arrows, but in fact he has his sling equipped in right hand and has slingstones.

 
Poster: Mutant
Date Posted: 27 April 2009, 22:20pm
Re: Some suggestions.
Ok, I'll look into that... cheers.
 
Poster: b_jonas
Date Posted: 28 April 2009, 13:11pm
Re: Some suggestions.
Okay, here are some random suggestions and questions.  None of them are really important bugs, the game is great as is, but in case you want to spend more time developing the game, you might want to know.

1. It would be nice if I could view the character stats and quests and other information during combat, even if I can't actually equip weapons or armor or things like that.

2. Could you make it possible to camp or scout when I'm in a town?

3. Would it make sense if we could cast certain spells like Heal outside of combat? It might make sense to cast even those effect that last a few turn, like Bless or Blades or Shield, as they can last for the first few turns of a combat.

4. In combat, could you move the fight and flee buttons out of the last turn messages scrollable frame, perhaps just above the character listing?  Similarly, perhaps move the camp and scout buttons down there, with the camp button also serving to perform the cast actions you've selected below.

5. Could you please put a bit more of space between the columns of the characters table, because the max hp and the xp almost run together.

6. When you're in a field, the messages window prints "You are in sector: 52, 26 (dense forest)".  Could you move this out of the messages window and print the coordinates even when in a town so I don't have to figure it out from the map popup help?

7. When creating a character, there's some help text describing each of the five character attributes.  Could you copy this to the Help because I need this info when increasing the attributes on a character level change.

8. I really like the big map, but could you please add a toggle switch to display all town names in the map?

9.  Could you give some hints on what character classes are good in what weapons? 

10.  Also, could you give some hints on what enemy creatures are like what?  Like which of them are easier and harder to fight, and which fight in a special way or which are vulnerable or less vulnerable to some particular method of attacks.

11.  Does wearing metallic body armor hinder spellcasting?  How about metallic shields? 

12.  Do characters have a carrying capacity?  Does carrying too much slow the party down? 


 
Poster: Mutant
Date Posted: 28 April 2009, 15:30pm
Re: Some suggestions.
Hey,

Yeah, I'm definitely planning on doing a lot more... as I say on the about page, the game's only about 40% complete...

On your suggestions: 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, & 8 all seem pretty reasonable.

#3 You can already cast Heal outside of combat... it's currently the only non-combat spell, but there are a lot more spells to come... at this stage, I think the combat spells will remain combat only.

#9 Currently there are no differences between the weapons in terms of class... Can't guarantee that won't change though

#10 Creatures strength is fairly basic right now, they have a level that defines how tough they are. I'm not sure I want to give that level away exactly, but I may add something to say how tough they are compared to your party (you already get a warning if you try to attack a group that's much stronger than you). There are no differences between types of attacks, etc. but again that may change.

#11 No

#12 Not yet, but that is planned.

Cheers for the feedback, I'll look at adding some of your suggestions soon.
 
Poster: raisltin
Date Posted: 28 April 2009, 15:42pm
Re: Some suggestions.
So far, the most effective group for me is 3 fighters and two archers. and with these the individual characters are almost unstoppable with 20+ AGI. Because spells are not super powerful, at least not at the lower level, it seems a lot more effective to recruit the priest and mage later on in the game.
Also, i don't see any really super hard monsters to kill after level 5-6. Are there areas with more powerful monsters?

I also agree with the major increase and gear and restrictions.

Another concept that would take a while to code is job specialties.
Herb gathering for potions
Mining for material
Blacksmithing for weapon enhancement
Enchanting
thievery.

And what if parties could take over towns? Maybe gives them a bonus to their stats around that area and discounts on gear/healing. Other parties would have to challenge them to claim that area. That could then be increased to guild control over certain areas.
 
Poster: Mutant
Date Posted: 28 April 2009, 16:14pm
Re: Some suggestions.
[quote author=raisltin link=topic=32.msg171#msg171 date=1240933372]
Also, i don't see any really super hard monsters to kill after level 5-6. Are there areas with more powerful monsters?
[/quote]

There are tougher ones in the dungeons :)

[quote author=raisltin link=topic=32.msg171#msg171 date=1240933372]
And what if parties could take over towns? Maybe gives them a bonus to their stats around that area and discounts on gear/healing. Other parties would have to challenge them to claim that area. That could then be increased to guild control over certain areas.
[/quote]

Yes, that sort of thing is definitely planned :) The game is called "Kingdoms" for a reason after all.
 
Poster: b_jonas
Date Posted: 28 April 2009, 17:31pm
Re: Some suggestions.
Great!  I think I have a strategy now. 

I'll buy a flail for everyone but the archer in my party, as that seems to be the best one-handed weapon (the battle axe is two-handed, right?), and a large steel shield.  The archer will keep using a longbow as that seems to be the best distance weapon, and if I get more archers I'll use a shortbow for the others because it's hard to find a longbow.  As carrying much doesn't slow the characters down and does not affect spellcasting, I'll also buy full body scale armors if I can get enough money (they're expensive) and maybe I'll get some headwear too.

However, if there's no difference between casts apart from magic and that the archers get to shoot two arrows sometimes when using projectile weapons (according to the help) then why is it worth to use warriors at all?
Even the starting inventory of the archers is better.

 
Poster: raisltin
Date Posted: 28 April 2009, 17:46pm
Re: Some suggestions.
warriors are useful for their HP, thats why i like three in the front, and then two archers with their two shots in the back
 
Poster: b_jonas
Date Posted: 28 April 2009, 18:07pm
Re: Some suggestions.
By the way, what are the rules for the game?  Are we allowed to

13. create many helper accounts just to help one main party with the starting resources and the starting 300 turns eg. sacrificing themselves to damage some dangerous creature group or carrying some goods from a town to another or just exploring the map?

14. Repeatedly create a party and disband it after the 300 turns are used up for a similar aim to help the final party you eventually create?

15. Repeatedly create many parties and disbanding it to start from a good place on the map?

16. Use bots to play?

Also, if you introduce a carrying capacity, please make sure we can drop items anywhere, not just sell them (even if they disappear when dropped). 

17. By the way, could you make archers start with a bit more slingstones?  It seems that in shops arrows are more common than slingstones so a starting party can run out of slingstones before finding a big city to buy them.  If you make it so you can't sell projectiles in shops (which doesn't seem too artificial, a shopkeeper likely doesn't want to mess with buying such cheap thingies) then I don't think one could even misuse this advantage.



 
Poster: raisltin
Date Posted: 28 April 2009, 18:27pm
Re: Some suggestions.
if we are testing... why have turns at all? we can really nail a ton of bugs/issues if we could just keep going at it.

I expect a complete wipe of all parties once a new version is released.

And as with the previous post, i think you should do everything that is not physically restricted by the game. That will help find ways to counter cheats and what not that may damage the playing experience.
 
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